King Abdulaziz: His Plane and His Pilot – Saba Book

Editor’s Note:

When “Raiders of the Lost Ark” star Harrison Ford met Captain Joe Grant at last summer’s Oshkosh air show he called him the “real Indiana Jones” reflecting on his pioneering role in the birth of civil aviation in the Kingdom. Joe, 101 years old, delivered a DC-3/Dakota airplane, a gift from President Franklin Roosevelt, to King Abdulaziz, to Saudi Arabia and stayed on as his pilot in the 1940s. Now this adventure is being told through a book by Michael Saba in “King Abdulaziz: His Plane and His Pilot,” which had a national launch at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC, in November.

This month is the 65th anniversary of the meeting between FDR and King Abdulaziz aboard the USS Quincy in the Great Bitter Lake segment of the Suez Canal. The wartime meeting of American and Saudi leaders marked the beginning of the official high-level relationship between the United States and the Kingdom. A side story to the shipboard summit was the gift of an airplane from Roosevelt to the Saudi King, the airplane that Joe Grant delivered to the King. SUSRIS is pleased today to introduce you to a book chronicling this fascinating story of the early days of US-Saudi relations in words and photographs, many not previously published, through our conversation with the author.

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW

King Abdulaziz: His Plane and His Pilot
A Conversation with Michael Saba

SUSRIS: Thank you, Doctor Saba for joining us to talk about your book, “King Abdulaziz: His Plane and His Pilot.” How did the book come about?

Michael Saba: It came about as a result of getting together with the Navy crews of the USS Quincy and USS Murphy, at the 2005 anniversary of the February 14, 1945 meeting at sea between President Roosevelt and King Abdulaziz. The Quincy carried Roosevelt from the Yalta Conference, with Churchill and Stalin, and the Murphy transported the King from Jeddah to the rendezvous in the Suez Canal for talks that were the first of their kind between these countries.

I was part of a group that put together a reunion of men from those ships in Miami along with relatives of the principal players – King Abdul Aziz, Franklin Roosevelt and Colonel Bill Eddy. At the reunion were Delano Roosevelt, a grandson of the President; Prince Abdulaziz bin Abdullah, a son of the King; and Jake Eddy, a nephew of Colonel Eddy, who was a very important figure in the early official relationship.

We assembled a good bit of background information for the reunion and found the Quincy meeting to be a fascinating turning point in history. One of the more interesting aspects was that Roosevelt and the Saudi leader seemed to have developed a great rapport and the American President gave Abdulaziz some gifts. First was a wheelchair. Roosevelt had two with him on the ship and noticed the difficulty the King had in moving about. Second, and much more importantly, was a DC-3 airplane – at the time a state of the art workhorse of aviation.

Further research about the gifted DC-3 showed it had flown as the first aircraft in the Saudi Arabian Airlines system and was in service until the late 1970s when it was mothballed. We also learned it was still around. It had been found in an airplane junkyard in Saudi Arabia in the 1990s and put back together by Boeing. It was restored to flying condition for the commemoration of King Abdulaziz’ 100th birthday and flown over to Africa and some of the old routes. Afterwards it ended up in a museum in Riyadh operated by the Ministry of Defense and Aviation.

We talked with people at the Riyadh museum about the DC-3 – there had been thoughts about bringing it to the United States for airshows – and we discovered that the original pilot who delivered the plane was still alive. And that’s Joe Grant, the subject of the book.

Joe was at that time, this would have been 2005, Joe was about 96, and he was an active businessman, still going to work everyday in Stamford, Connecticut. He had retired as a TWA pilot in 1968 at the age of 60. I contacted Joe and found that he had all these wonderful stories about delivering the plane, about being the King’s pilot, some fascinating stories. And he had hundreds of photos that were sitting in his basement. So with all that incredible history waiting to be shared I decided to put together a book to tell that story.

SUSRIS: The President Roosevelt and King Abdulaziz meeting was the first summit for the countries. What was its significance?

Saba: A good friend, Hassan Yassin, the son of King Abdulaziz’ foreign affairs advisor, Yousef Yassin, told me that when the King was asked about a meeting with Roosevelt, he asked to know more about America. Of course, at that time the British and Churchill were pursuing the Saudis quite heavily. They were getting oil out of Persia, Bahrain and Kuwait but were not really into Saudi Arabia in those days. Still, Churchill had always seen the Kingdom as in the British sphere of interest.

In any case, the King asked Yousef two questions. First, do the Americans believe in God? The answer was yes of course. Second, do the Americans have colonies? And the answer was no. The King then said he wanted to meet him. The meeting was a tremendous surprise to Churchill who scrambled to have a meeting right after that with the King. They met on a British cruiser in the Suez Canal after the Roosevelt meeting.

Roosevelt was described to me by crewmembers of the Quincy and Murphy who saw the way he related to the King. Churchill, famously, was a cigar smoker and he smoked in front of Abdulaziz. When Roosevelt, a chain smoker, wanted a cigarette he’d excuse himself and go have a cigarette privately. Roosevelt liked an afternoon cocktail but he didn’t drink at all with the King present. Churchill took a glass of liquor while the King was there. Abdulaziz noticed that. Churchill also gave a gift to the King and it was a brand new Rolls Royce automobile, thinking he’d out-do Roosevelt’s gift of a DC-3. The Rolls Royce, however, had the driver seat on the right side, which was where the King customarily sat. So he chose not to use the car which is now in a museum, never having been used. The DC-3, by contrast was used by the King – with Joe Grant as its pilot. It eventually became the first plane in the Saudi Arabian Airlines fleet along with three more DC-3s that were brought in while Joe was there. So the upshot of the meeting with Roosevelt, and by contrast the following meeting with Churchill, was that the Saudi King was left with very good feelings over a relationship with the Americans.

SUSRIS: What did you learn about the results for the American delegation?

Saba: One of the more interesting outcomes of the meeting was that Roosevelt was very impressed with the King. He returned to Washington from the Yalta Conference, and his meeting with Abdulaziz, to share comments like he learned more in five minutes with the Saudi King about the Middle East than in all his years from all his advisors.

The King had talked with him about many things, about the new relations with the United States in the future, etcetera. He also talked extensively about Palestine and the issues of the day that the President should consider very seriously before he made any decisions. I think he had a great effect on Roosevelt’s attitude about the Palestine question. Of course, Roosevelt died less than two months after meeting Abdulaziz. So these issues were left to President Truman.

SUSRIS: That’s where this story shifts to pilot Joe Grant in Saudi Arabia.

Saba: Yes, Joe Grant was the pilot picked to deliver the plane, the gift from Roosevelt. He had been a TWA pilot since before the war and was quite experienced, unlike a lot of the younger pilots that we hear about — the 20 year old “boy wonders.” He was already in his 30s when World War II started. Joe was assigned to transport troops across the Atlantic. He was based in Cairo in 1945 and was told, “Joe you’re the guy to deliver this plane. “

Prince Faisal, later King Faisal, came to Cairo to facilitate the plane delivery. Joe, with the Prince onboard flew the plane in to the Kingdom, into Jeddah on the Red Sea coast. At the time there was an airstrip in Jeddah and another one in Dhahran in the Eastern Province, but there were no airfields at all in the rest of the Kingdom.

SUSRIS: Getting the DC-3 to Jeddah wasn’t the end of the story?

Saba: Not at all. After they reached Jeddah Prince Faisal told Joe, “Now you have to deliver the plane to my father in Riyadh.” Joe headed to the capital across a country with no navigation aids, not even a road to follow. He told me he used the sun to keep his course to Riyadh until he saw the palace. Joe circled and, since there was no airstrip, he just landed in the desert. He showed up and said here’s your plane.

The King was enthralled with the whole process and he asked Joe to stay with him as the pilot for his new airplane. The war was still on but Joe got the assignment to stay with Abdulaziz where he served as the King’s personal pilot for the next two years.

SUSRIS: What was Joe’s flying routine?

Saba: Most of the flying he did in those two years was just hops from one piece of the desert to the next. He took the King on many hunting trips. He took the King and his people around to meet various people like tribal leaders around the country. Joe would land in the desert and take out a bunch of stones and line them up which often became the location for airports in places like Taif and Tabuk and other parts of Saudi Arabia. The original airport was where Joe landed and put out a bunch of rocks and a tent.

SUSRIS: What did he learn about King Abdulaziz?

SABA: Joe told me he was fascinated with the King, in the sense of how insightful a person he was. Abdulaziz had only been outside Saudi Arabia once, and that was when he went to the Suez Canal in 1945 to meet President Roosevelt, but he was a very smart man even if not a world traveler.

The King had the view that in the West, the United States in particular, had been settled with railroads and roads and other infrastructure but he had the view that the Kingdom could develop quickly through the use of aviation. Airplanes would get people around the country, to communicate throughout the Kingdom, to deliver people on the Hajj. So one of the earliest routes that Joe helped to develop was a route from Damascus and Haifa down to Saudi Arabia for the Hajj.

SUSRIS: When did Joe leave the Kingdom?

Saba: He left in 1947. He said he regrets that to this day. He was there on loan from TWA, which eventually became the consulting group to set up Saudi Arabian Airlines. Many of the TWA pilots and administrators from that era have very fond memories of Saudi Arabia and vice versa. Joe left in 1947 and didn’t go back until he went with a group of us in 2006 when he got to get back inside his DC-3. There was a second trip to the Kingdom with Joe, early last year.

SUSRIS: Can you tell us about that visit to the Kingdom?

Saba: We talk about Joe’s 2009 visit in the last part of the book. That’s when he met the King and other senior members of the Royal Family. They all had fond memories of Joe flying them around Saudi Arabia as young men and boys.

It was quite an amazing visit. We met King Abdullah at his Janandriya farm, where he hosted President Obama last year. The respect the King showed Joe was incredible. We spent about four hours with King Abdullah and the senior princes who came to that meeting which was really a Majlis of sorts – although it was much more informal than those I had seen in the past. We watched television, some soccer matches together. It was great fun.

Other senior princes would come in to visit with Joe and say things like, “Joe do you remember the time when..?” There were some great stories. For example, Prince Badar, who is almost as old as King Abdullah, said, “Joe do you remember when I was a young man and my mother was in a small village and we flew from Riyadh to pick her up because she was sick? We had to fly her back to Riyadh. Do you remember that?” Joe answered he did a lot of that and couldn’t recall that particular flight. The Prince pressed him on the story. He said, “We took off for the village, we landed in the desert, we picked up my mother and she was so ill. We took off for Riyadh. We circled. And only one wheel of the airplane would come down. Then you tried everything to get the other wheel down and it wouldn’t come down. So you said well there’s only one procedure I can do. It was to come down, bounce off the desert with the one wheel, hope that that would push the other wheel down, which in fact it did, then circle and then land. You saved our lives, Joe.” And Joe said it was just his job. There were many other great stories like that. They all had wonderful memories of Joe and great respect for him.

SUSRIS: You mentioned having access to so many great photographs of civil aviation in the Kingdom and the culture and traditions of Saudi Arabia from that early era. Is “King Abdulaziz: His Plane and His Pilot” a book of photography?

Saba: It’s much more readable than a coffee table book. We’re looking at a second edition that would include many, many more of the photos from Joe’s collection. We’re also looking at an Arabic edition that would include notable Saudi personalities, who were not as relevant for the first edition. It is what we called the “Oshkosh” edition which, in addition to telling Joe’s story and showing some of his pictures, also traces the history of civil aviation in Saudi Arabia. How it all got started. How it became the largest fleet in the Middle East, 20th largest in the world. And it all started with Joe Grant, sort of the uncle to the whole thing, starting with his time as pilot to the King of Saudi Arabia.

Let me say a little more about the Oshkosh air show, besides what a fantastic event it is every summer. Last year Joe was the honored guest at the event and he will be honored again there this summer. There will be a fleet of privately owned DC-3 Dakotas at the show, possibly with Joe leading the formation. We are working to get the DC-3 that was President Roosevelt gave to King Abdulaziz for Oskhosh, the original aircraft flown to Saudi Arabia in 1945 by Joe.

SUSRIS: How is this story relevant to the relationship between Saudi Arabia and the United States?

Saba: There’s just a great reservoir of love and concern about America that remains based on what people like Joe Grant and the people at Aramco and other Americans did for the people of Saudi Arabia. Those warm feelings remain and are reciprocated through the wonderful hospitality and respect that is shown.

If you recall what I mentioned about King Abdulaziz questioning his advisors about America, about whether the United States had colonies and do the people believe in God? Great respect was given to that. I think it is relevant even today, when people are questioning whether the relationship is strong or worthwhile. It’s good to know there’s that kind of feeling about it.

I would also mention that Joe is a very astute businessman. He is the world’s largest manufacturer of puzzle rings. They were originally developed in the Middle East and he brought them to America and now he’s the world’s largest distributor – under his trade name Jose Grant. In any case, the business opportunities he sees in the Kingdom are tremendous. He sees what is happening on the business front and has decided he wants to get into manufacturing in the Kingdom and building an operation there, so that’s what he’s doing, and he’s almost 102 years old. I think that’s symbolic of another part of the relationship, the business opportunities. They exist and are waiting for Americans, not only for guys like Joe but for other Americans who are saying, “Business is hurting these days, I wonder where I should go?” Well, what about Saudi Arabia. If a 101 year old guy can figure it out and say I’m going to get this done and it’s going to be in my family’s legacy, then I think a lot of other people should be able to figure it out too.

SUSRIS: Thank you so much for sharing this exciting story.

About Michael Saba, PhD

With over 40 years of experience in Middle East relations, Michael Saba PhD also lived in Saudi Arabia and consulted businesses there for over three decades. As the former president of GulfAmerica, an international business and health services company, Dr. Saba facilitated trade between the United States and the Arab Gulf.

Dr. Saba also served as Manager of Middle East Public Affairs for the Mobil Oil Corporation and assisted in the development of the book, “The Genius of Arab Civilization,” which was produced by the Mobil Oil Corporation.

Saba has traveled extensively and served as a Peace Corps Volunteer in Malaysia as well as a Peace Corps trainer in Asia, Africa and Latin America. Saba also served as Vice President International for St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital/ALSAC in Memphis, Tennessee. He speaks six languages and serves on many international committees, which promote cross-cultural and international relations.

Note: The book, “King Abdulaziz: His Plane and His Pilot,” can be ordered through the www.GulfAmerica.com Web site. A portion of the proceeds from book sales there goes to the Disabled Children in Aviation fund.

Related Information:

• Book Home Page and Ordering Information – “King Abdulaziz: His Plane and His Pilot” by Michael Saba
• A Perspective on Saudi Aviation – Book Foreword – Prince Sultan bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud
• Bear in the Air – Joe Grant, DC-3 Pilot for Saudi King – Feb 4, 2010
• 101-year-old pilot to give first-hand account of the beginnings of U.S.-Saudi relationship – General Aviation News
• At 101, King Abdul Aziz’s pilot has no plans to slow down – Arab News – Mar 23, 2009
• King Abdullah receives U.S. pilot Joseph Grant – SaudiEmbassy Press Release – May 21, 2009
• King Abdulaziz Medal Awarded to Joseph Grant – SaudiEmbassy Press Release – Jan 28, 2009
• Captain Joe Grant honored with Hart Award – SUSRIS IOI – Mar 26, 2007
• Joe Grant at the 2009 Oshkosh AirVenture
• Captain Joe Grant Barnstorms Oshkosh Air Show
• The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques receives Joe Grant
• Jose Grant Home Page
• Debut of the book “King Abdulaziz: His Plane and His Pilot” – Saudi Commission for Tourism and Antiquities

Tagged as: FDR, foreign policy, foreign relations, Great Bitter Lake, King Abdulaziz, religion